Tuesday
Dec302008
Breaking it down for facebook
Tuesday, December 30, 2008 
Let's start with a bit of history. Back in June 2007, a facebook group was created called "Hey facebook, breastfeeding is not obscene (Official petition to facebook)" after Kelli Roman (see Time interview with Kelli) had breastfeeding pictures removed from the site. The membership of the group grew exponentially, reaching 6,000 members by August 2007, 26,000 members one month later, and then all the way up to 89,971 members at the time I wrote this post. I honestly thought through the strength of that group that facebook had backed down back in 2007 or at least become complacent on the issue.
Then, on November 6th, 2008 I got a tweet from Heather Farley (@TopHat8855) saying "facebook took my profile pic down because it was of me breastfeeding. Calling in the troops (or whatever I can find)" and later said "going to write an email. Someone is messing with the wrong lactivist ;)". This kicked off round two against facebook on this issue. Heather has been blogging and tweeting about it ever since her original post called Obscenities and has been involved in arranging protests and nurse-ins, as have many others.Other than encouraging people to take part in the December 27 virtual protest against facebook, I hadn't blogged about this issue yet because I thought others were doing a great job. But over the past 24 hours I've started hearing way too many things that are getting me riled up. So let me break the issues and arguments down for you.
Three reasons people may wish to post breastfeeding pictures
I keep hearing people say "I know that breastfeeding is normal and natural, but why do these women want to post their breastfeeding pictures anyway?" Ultimately, I don't think it matters why. Each person will have their own reasons, but here are a few possibilities:
1) It is beautiful and cute: A lot of breastfeeding pictures are beautiful. They are an artistic expression of a relationship between a mother and her child. Like other art, it deserves an audience. Some of this art is photographic (like my portrait taken by photographer Annie Lance). Some are paintings, including historical and contemporary pieces. One of my new favourites is this watercolour by Vancouver artist Erika Hastings . In addition to being artistic, many of these photos are cute and parents love showing off their adorable babies to their friends on facebook.
2) They are proud of their accomplishment: Breastfeeding isn't easy for everyone. A lot of women struggle through bad latches, poor milk supply, sore nipples, and other breastfeeding challenges and if they persevere, they want to share their success with others. Other people like to post pictures of themselves getting their university degree. Well, honestly, that was a walk in the park compared to the effort I put into breastfeeding my son.
3) Marking a milestone in their child's life: Parents like to show friends and relatives pictures and videos of their kids meeting milestones. Especially if aunts, uncles, and grandparents are not close-by, facebook can be an ideal platform for being able to share those special moments. Whether it is breastfeeding, first solids foods, standing up, smiling, or going down the slide, these are the moments people want to share with those that are important to them.
Three stupid reasons for wanting to ban breastfeeding pictures from facebook
Okay, now let's break down the dumbass reasons people keep using to justify facebook's ban.
1) Breasts are sexual and breastfeeding is private: I put these together because they are linked. The only reason that people think breastfeeding needs to be private is because we sexualize breasts. People will mask this by saying something like "it is a natural and beautiful private moment between a baby and mother". Hmm...why isn't it private then when a mother bottle feeds her baby while lovingly holding him and gazing into his eyes. Really, breasts are for feeding babies. Perhaps they have other purposes too, but their primary function is to feed babies. Our society has turned this completely on its head. Daniel does a great job explaining this on culturefeast:
Men and women alike have abysmally poor role models in their parents, extended family, and teachers. Men are taught by example to view breasts as a intensely sexual parts of the female body. They are one of the hottest visual hotspots on a woman. Many men face a sort of sexual confusion when their wives or girlfriends first breastfeed a baby.
That's just the start....read on to get the rest of the story.
2) I don't want to look at your breastfeeding pictures: People keep saying this over and over again. I don't want to see pictures of women breastfeeding. Well good for you. I also don't want to look at pictures of your dog with reindeer antlers, you and your drunk buddies at a bar, you and some celebrity you ran into, or your parents at their 50th wedding anniversary. It simply doesn't interest me. So I don't click on those pictures. Or if I'm really repulsed by them, then I can always de-friend you. It is ridiculous to censor something just because some people don't like it and if we were going to be there, I'd have a list a mile long of things that I consider more offensive and less attractive than breastfeeding.
3) You signed up to facebook, so play by their rules: I like facebook. I like it a lot. It is a great medium for interacting with people and sharing things about my life. But most of all it is great because everyone else uses it too. If I decide not to be part of facebook and instead go to some mommy site that will allow and support my breastfeeding pictures, that won't be much good to me because the people I want to interact with aren't there.
The whole "if you don't like it, go elsewhere" attitude is very typical of current American culture. If you are having problems with your spouse, get a divorce. If you don't like your boss, quit your job. If you don't like an employee's clothes, fire him. If you get bad service somewhere, boycott that place.
Well I'm sorry, but I don't go away that easily. If I am in a good relationship, but there are a few problems then I'd rather work on those problems than just jump ship. If I am getting crappy service somewhere, then I'd rather bring it up with the manager and see if they can improve. If I don't like a company's policies, then I'll also raise it with them and try to get them to change it.
Discriminatory policies get changed when people fight them. Not when they go elsewhere.
Three reasons why facebook should allow breastfeeding pictures
Now finally, here are three reasons why facebook should allow breastfeeding pictures. I'm not the only one blogging about these issues. Heather Farley mentioned many of them in her letter to facebook and other bloggers have raised these too.1) The facebook double standard - revenue generating boobies are allowed: As Chris Brogan pointed out in his post "facebook shows me boobies", breasts (bare breasts, completely topless woman, in sexual context) are allowed on facebook and they're served up as paid advertising to those that are in the right demographic for boobies. Beyond the advertising issue, there are plenty of photos on facebook of women in bikinis or other low cut outfits that show an awful lot more breast than I do when I'm breastfeeding. Seriously, just search on "breasts" on facebook and you'll get plenty of examples. So what is it facebook? Breasts or no breasts?
2) Normalizing breastfeeding and protecting human rights: Breast is best. It is by far the best nutrition for a baby. Yet only 31.5% of American babies were still exclusively breastfed at 3 months (exclusive breastfeeding is recommended for at least 6 months by all major health authorities). This is not good enough. We need society to see breastfeeding as normal. Not something to be hidden or ashamed of. It is also a human rights issue, as Heather explains:When pictures are removed of breastfeeding and not of artificial feeding, breastfeeding mothers are being discriminated against and a wrongful double standard is set. After all, a bottle is simply a plastic, prosthetic disembodied breast in size, form, and function. Additionally, many groups such as the Ontario Human Rights Commission have stated that breastfeeding right issues are human rights issues and that discrimination against a breastfeeding mother is discrimination of her rights.
3) Women and mothers are a big part of facebook's members: People are mad. Almost ninety-thousand (yes - 90,000) people are members of the Hey facebook, breastfeeding is not obscene (Official petition to facebook) group. Right now, these are mad people that would like to continue using facebook, but that want it to change its policies. But the whole issue is causing some people like Maria Lavis to look at facebook's policies regarding photos more closely and she is finding plenty of other things she doesn't like about them and thinking of getting off of facebook (and taking friends and family with her) as a result. This could become much bigger than a few breastfeeding mothers and I don't think facebook wants it to go there.
It all boils down to this
Not everyone wants to post breastfeeding pictures and not everyone wants to look at breastfeeding pictures, but the same could be said of any picture on facebook. If facebook is going to allow pictures it should allow breastfeeding pictures. HEY FACEBOOK, BREASTFEEDING IS NOT OBSCENE!
P.S. - I syndicate my blog onto my facebook profile, so this post is up there. I would encourage you to share it on your facebook profile too! (use the button below).
Reader Comments (102)
The big thing that bothers me on facebook is that there are these "rules" that only the breastfeeding mothers are subject to! There are ads on the sidebars, even ones you can't "thumbs down" to have them disappear, and they have offensive content, including people making out and being scantily clad. I have had to remove a friend for having outright disgusting porn photos that were part of a facebook quiz, show up on my newsfeed! He did not get his profile removed. My photos are only viewable by my friends, and it is easy enough to not click on my private photos if you don't want to see them. And so you know, apparently facebook thinks that feeding animals are also "obscene" - they have been removed on several occasions. Breastfeeding and animal nursing pics are apparently more pornographic than those beer and dating ads, and people's naked (sexual) pictures. If there is a rule against nudity, you wouldn't know it because only breastfeeding mommies are being acted against - all the rest of true lewdness is being tolerated.
BIG Kahuna:
The difference between drinking alcohol and smoking, and breastfeeding, is that with the 2 former activities, those can be hazardous to your health. There is a public safety issue at hand, and, therefore, on THAT basis, it is legitimate for FB to ban such photos. There is no "public safety" issue regarding breastfeeding! In fact, it is the opposite - normalizing breastfeeding will produce a healthier society. There are MANY articles regarding the uncontroverted evidenced that breastfeeding enhances the health of not only the children, but of the mothers too.
I agree that they can make up their own rules and do anything they want. But it is also worthwhile to pressure them to see the error of their ways. It's not just Facebook, we are trying to remove the whole social stigma and this is not the only place we do it!
Ha! If I don't want to see your pictures I won't look at your pictures. Deal? But I'm not going to dictate to you what pictures to put up and I am CERTAINLY not going to put a blanket over my baby for you! Look at something else--easy as pie!
I was thinking this would compare to pictures of baby booties...which do not get taken down because they are "cute", yet they are nudity (and usually more of it).
Great post.
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One point that hasn't been brought up about why people might post pics where they're breastfeeding... You don't CHOOSE when baby gets hungry! There may be many moments in life that you want to commemorate and share, where you HAPPEN to have a baby latched on. You're not even trying to post a picture of you nursing, it's just that nursing is something you *do* so much of your life when you have a baby, so pictures happen.
As for "Well, it's their rules," the only "rule" I agreed to that they're citing for this is: "You will not post content that is hateful, threatening, pornographic, or that contains nudity or graphic or gratuitous violence." I live in California (where Facebook is also based), and our laws here specifically EXEMPT breastfeeding from being restricted as "nudity" or "obscenity." I did not agree to any modification of that rule when I signed up. So instead, Facebook is imposing rules on me without disclosing them in advance (and possibly in violation of state law). If they want to categorize breastfeeding as "nudity", they have to make that explicit; otherwise, a reasonable person would assume that it is not included.
If a site has clearly-stated rules that I object to, I don't sign up. If they have unofficial policies that are NOT stated, and discriminate against certain users, I'll complain like hell. That is NOT how you do business. I was already hooked into Facebook before I knew they did this; they didn't tell me up-front.
@Ashley- See, here's the thing, I am a breastfeeding mother. Me breastfeeding is not "private" and "intimate"... it's life! It's what we do! A kid gets hungry, I feed it. I don't want to have to hide in a stinky bathroom, or put my kid under a blanket when it's 120 degrees out (literally, I live in Phoenix, AZ, and getting that hot is pretty normal). I am always careful and discrete. You can't see my nipple, my baby is attatched to it. I have breastfeeding photos on facebook (they haven't taken them down yet, but you can't see any skin) and think they should be allowed to stay there. I want my children to feel comfortable around breastfeeding moms, and I want my daughter to feel safe breastfeeding when she does the same for her kids. I want my nieces to see it as normal, so that they are more likely to do it. If we keep saying breastfeeding is "private", how will people see that it's normal?
I may be wrong but I don't think it is FB monitoring these pics...they just wouldn't have the time to do it all manually. As far as I am aware photos which are reported are automatically deleted and the same notice is given to each person. If you are having BF pics deleted I'd be careful of who you are friends with on there! Before you lynch me I have my own BF pics up on FB and BFed my daughter until she self-weaned at just over 2 years old.
Jay:
I have reported offensive things on facebook before and they are not automatically deleted. They are first reviewed by someone from facebook. So you are right that facebook does not monitor all pictures put up on the site and that it is probably often someone's own friend reporting their images. However, when facebook reviews those reports it should be clear to them that those pictures are not obscene and should not be removed from the site. They are the ones that take the action to remove pictures and/or freeze people's accounts.
Love love love it! Agreed 1,000 times over. I think I'll even link to you from my blog. <3
[...] of Birthing Magazine on Facebook and today they posted a link to PhD in Parenting and a blog titled Breaking it Down for Facebook. It is an excellent post on the subject and I just had to share it here on my [...]
@BIG Kahuna
Yes, Facebook can make their own rules, and their rules state that "obscene" images are not permitted. The problem we have is that breastfeeding is being labeled as "obscene". It's not obscene to feed your child. It's NOT obscene to feed your child. I've traveled a bit and it's not like this in other countries -they get it. That mother is not being sexual she's being a mother. Breastfeeding is already not always easy but it is the best, and as a society we should be supporting mothers in their efforts to give them what was created for them, not call it obscene and shove them into bathroom stalls and password-protected photo areas.
Great post! I am adding this on my Friday Favourites Roundup! brilliant!
[...] 48. Because companies like facebook continued to have screwed up policies that do not allow breastfe.... [...]
Is this still an issue? Does anyone have a link to FB picture posting rules that state no BFing pics?
Two of my babies hated the blanket. They pushed and kicked it off every time I tried that. If/when it comes down to preventing my child from being able to settle into a meal, or "offending" someone who can easily look in the other direction, my child wins.
When a baby is hungry, it's hungry. It *needs* to eat. Anyone who suffers from teh bizarre delusion that a baby having a meal is "private" (or, worse, "obscene") is entirely welcome to NOT LOOK. It's not a peepshow, anyway.
Oh - and I've seen plenty of breasts on facebook - just not breasts being used to feed babies. (This was still the case last time I checked, but I'll admit I haven't checked recently.)
Since when is a human being eating private? Anybody remember a thing called restaurants? People eat in public all the time without their head under a blanket. I will not disrespect my daughter by stuffing her under a blanket. I am highly offended by people who chew with their mouths open. I'm offended by people who go up to the buffet without washing their hands. I'm offended by people who talk too loudly or stare at my husband in I while we are dining. I can't throw a blanket over the things that offend me. So if you're ignorant enough to believe that breastfeeding is obscene put a blanket over YOUR head. I'm leaving FB because I'm disgusted by the fact that no matter how many times I select 'friends only' I still run into strangers that have seen my photos. Oh and 'Big Kahuna' grow up!
I am sad that it is indeed still an issue! Here is a link to the recent photos that were banned. Some of them are real art that has been called pornography.
http://www.tera.ca/photos14.html
[...] One issue I had planned to write about this week was breastfeeding apparel company Momzelle’s facebook page being deleted. I’ve written in the past about the ridiculousness of facebook’s continued removal of breastfeeding photos because they consider t.... [...]
2007....you MUST be kidding. I cannot believe it goes back that far...and probably further if we really dug. It is of course sad and unfortunate that the governing bodies of Facebook find breastfeeding inappropriate, but pictures of gratuitous breasts and plunging cleavage not only appropriate but worthy of advertisements. It would be helpful to show natural images of mothers breastfeeding babies (you know, what a woman’s breasts are made for) to show the younger generation how “normal” it is, and perhaps in turn change attitudes towards breastfeeding. Thanks for your wonderfully informative post!!
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I posted this same thing on the "branding" blog mentioned above...
Here is my issue with it all. In almost every state, in the U.S. breastfeeding is protected, by law, stating that it is NOT deemed obscene. It is exempt from public nudity laws. It is deemed NOT a lewd or lascivious act. In many states it is actually a violation of the mother and the child’s civil rights to ask them to leave, cover up or nurse in a different area. My question is, how is Facebook above these laws?
Facebook’s headquarters are in California, so shouldn’t the business be required to adhere to the same laws as any other business in California? If so:
Right to Breastfeed in Public (1997)
Section 43.3 of the Civil Code
“Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breastfeed her child in any location, public or private, except the private home or residence of another, where the mother and the child are otherwise authorized to be present.”
[...] is not obscene! (Official petition to Facebook)’ which now has 258,337 members! The blog PhD in Parenting has a wonderful history of the breastfeeding vs facebook phenomena and some other very useful [...]
[...] you want a quick verse in the history of Facebook’s discrimination against breastfeeding, Annie at PhDinParenting has a great post about it. It’s from December of 2008, if you’re wondering how long this crap has been going [...]
Gosh, I am REALLY curious as to how you're seeing a nipple when a woman is breastfeeding. You ought to let her know she's doing it wrong. The baby's mouth should be covering that.
That's the problem. As stated about three dozen times on this page, there are TONS of photos of full, bare breasts, nipples and all, all over Facebook. One way to find them is to search "boobs" or a similar colloquialism in the Search bar. I'm pretty tough to offend and I'm shocked by what they allow to stay up.
Thank you so much for this very well written blog. You touched on every point I have been trying to make to people for days now but did it so much more eloquently than I ever could!
Thank you so much for this very well written blog. You touched on every point I have been trying to make to people for days now but did it so much more eloquently than I ever could!
I don't really see where anyone is following up on the intense double standard. Perhaps I, maybe, would understand Facebook's rules better if it ACTUALLY applied to EVERYONE. The fact is that the breastfeeding photos show a HELL of a lot less boob than A LOT of the pictures I've seen. Facebook allows underage girls to "flaunt their stuff" and groups that have FULL ON NUDITY, but they only delete breastfeeding and breastfeeders? WTF?
Play devil's advocate all you like, but if Facebook doesn't apply its nudity clause to EVERYONE then it should apply to no one.
You are missing the entire point--you don't change policies by sitting back and doing nothing; you change them by actively demanding something be changed. Facebook made it possible for all these mothers to connect in a way that is fast and easy. It is an American based private company and thereby MUST follow American laws...including not discriminating against mothers who breastfeed. By deleting these photos they are sending out a very clear message that they do not approve of women breastfeeding their children. If a woman is asked to leave a restaurant because she is breastfeeding she has every right to sue the place (and this has happened: in stores, malls, and restaurants around the country.) I would love to see somebody stand up for their rights and slap FB upside the head with a lawsuit. I would love for that person to be me (alas, could not breastfeed my DS and therefore do not have pictures to post!)
Facebook needs to fix its ToS. Period.
Heck, I have a picture posted of a mother cat and her litter happily nursing...it's been up on Facebook for YEARS.
Don't want to see it? Fine. Don't look. It's as easy as that.
Just FYI...lactose is in cow's milk ;)
"I did not agree to any modification of that rule when I signed up."
Unfortunately every time FB changes its ToS you essentially "agree" to them every time you sign on.
Not that I agree with that policy at all....
One doesn't post naked baby in the tub pictures because the sickos in the federal government will lock you up forever for child pornography if you do. Don't believe me--check it out. I have a friend who used to work in computer forensics, and who worked on a couple such cases. Having more than TWO (yes, TWO!!) such pics on your OWN home computer, even though they are pics of your OWN kids, is enough to get you charged with child porn. Facebook isn't the only bunch of official sickos.
@big kahuna -- As was pointed out Facebook allows plenty of nudity, particularly in advertisements. You can easily see many completely bare breasts (with no cute little baby blocking the view) by a simple search. So it's not a matter of following the rules - there is no consistent application of said rules.
And just for fun, remember that there are plenty of ads & personal photos that show so much more boob then most nursing photos.. so it's not the flesh that's being called obscene, but the act of feeding a baby. If feeding a baby is obscene then we're gonna have a rough time continuing the species! There is plenty that rolls by in my stream I don't agree with, and plenty more showing up in the ads section. (seriously... singles site ads of cute chicks in low cut shirts to my 13 year old????!!!!) But I have never felt any of it violated the 'obscene rules' clause (other then marketing it to a 13 yr old...) And nursing also is not obscene. Not at all. This is why it is protected in so many areas- to prevent small minded sexual-focused morons from starving healthy well adjusted kids!
Heck, the absolute best way to see my entire good sized boob was try a blanket! My ds would kick that thing away, hike my shirt up over my head & then think about latching back on! Sorry, not always an option there. & I bet you also want to shop in peace & not hear my kid scream in hunger right? & no bottles were not an option for a list of reasons that are too long to recount & no one's business. So what, should moms & babes stay home for months so they can be private? Not shop or show their faces in public unless they can do so entirely between feeds? Magically know if hteir infant will be extra hungry or fussy today? Sorry, but this is how our species got here & survived. Bikini beer is not. If you can have bikini beer babes I can have nursing boobs.
Most nursing photos that I've seen removed, or baby friendly or birth friendly photos have been incredibly pc. No, make that *all* the ones I've seen. No nipples (those go in babies mouth yes, but are no shown) some clevage (like what shows in low cut tops!) or baby or birth-friendly shots of a bare belly full of baby... no pubic hair, no legs, no boobs.... always appropriate. Similar nudity is & has been allowed by fb & other publications while nursing has not for ages. Generally it seems sex is ok, babies & possibly sexy anything is not.
Yes, Facebook is a private company.
So are the likes of McDonalds, but in the non-cyber world, breastfeeding is, in most places, *legally protected*. The management of McDonalds may or may not approve of breastfeeding, but if they eject me from their store for feeding my child *they are acting unlawfully*.
I am a member of Facebook not for what the site itself offers me, but because the majority of my family and friends are there. Mainly family and friends who are too far away from me to have the same kind of social contact any other way. If they were on Bebo or Myspace I would be a member there, instead. And, importantly, these are family and friends *who are interested in me and my children*, and *who are far from offended by pictures of my children feeding*.
That would be fine, except I'd either have to persuade around 300 people the would be better off there or have dual membership. I don't have the time for either, and the former would never happen anyhow.
The Holistic Moms Network created the video Nursing Our Future to show moms breastfeeding in every day places like a coffee shop, museum, on vacation, at a party, a baptism and also at famous locations like the Acropolis and inside the Eiffel Tower!
http://www.youtube.com/user/HMNNational
The more men, women and children SEE mothers feeding and nurturing their children at their breasts, the more commonplace it will become!
Гуд
Thanks for writing this, Annie. I shared it on my facebook page because I think you said exactly what I've been trying to articulate for a while. I especially loved the part where you talk about how some of us had to struggle really hard to breastfeed so posting a picture of breastfeeding your child is similar to when some people post pictures with their college degrees. Breastfeeding was the hardest thing I've ever had to overcome, but I am so happy I did. I think I may take to my page and try to post 100 pictures of me breastfeeding my now toddler. :)
Shared your post on fb. :)
[...] that if the photo is flagged obscene or with nudity that it violates their terms. Annie from PHD in Parenting breaks it down for Facebook but I’m guessing they aren’t [...]
[...] have said…I’ll try to keep adding more as I find ones I agree with. PhD in Parenting Breaking it Down for Facebook Okaasan mommy and more Chilling Effect on Breastfeeding Examples of removed pictures (not suitable [...]
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THANK YOU! Off to share.